Gohan turns into super saiyan (english)
well, gohan turns super saiyan enjoy it (is the english version) bueno, gohan se tranorma en super saiyajin disfrutenlon! (es la version en ingles)
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@mynameisalmahdi – “but an undermining of himself”
While this is true it’s still a testament to Tien’s power. You claimed he was weaker than First Form Frieza but my response is logically I SERIOUSLY doubt First Form Frieza could hold back Second Form Cell for several minutes. Hell, I doubt he could hold back First Form Cell. First Form Frieza’s power level was around 530,000. Second Form Cell’s power is in the tens or hundreds of millions.
@A86
Tenshinhan himself claimed that Super Saiya-jin Son Gokuu of the Artificial Human arc was worlds beyond him. The Super Saiya-jin in question was himself inferior to Artificial Human 17, who is in turn vastly weaker than Artificial Human 16. Ultimately, Artificial Human 16 was infinitely weaker than Cell II, being unable to harm him with a direct punch to the face. Thus, Tenshinhan’s so-called feat can be attributed to either PIS or the properties of the “chi” cannons, not his own power.
@mynameisalmahdi – When did I say Tien was more powerful than SSJ Goku? At least around the time of the Cell Saga?
“Tenshinhan’s so-called feat can be attributed to either PIS or the properties of the “chi” cannons”
It’s known that in DBZ characters can charge an attack that is more powerful than their normal fighting power and put some of their own desperate life force in it making it powerful enough that it could kill them too if turned back on them. Like Vegeta did with his Gallet Gun.
@mynameisalmahdi – Also it’s not just the qualities of the attack technique it’s also the power you put in it. No matter how good a beam is if it lacks sufficient power it won’t do anything to an opponent. Remember when Perfect Cell used a Super Kamehameha against Gohan and Piccolo’s Special Beam Cannon/Demon Drill? It did nothing despite the quality of those chi moves.
You have to have a least some power. Again I SERIOUSLY doubt First Form Frieza could hold back any Cell form.
@A86
“Chi” attacks augmenting “chi” levels is precisely the reason why the reasoning that Tenshinhan’s “feat” was demonstrative of his own power is fallacious. Second, my point was that even Artificial Human 16, who was preposterously superior to Super Gokuu, was unable to harm Cell with a direct punch to the face. Hence, I demand that you explain why you believe that someone like Tenshinhan, who is weaker than Super Gokuu, would cause any damage to a beast like Cell.
@A86
Except you have yet to evidence that Tenshinhan damaged Cell at all. Moreover, as a technique, Tenshinhan’s “chi” cannon is superior to the Dodompa, which, according to Kame Sennin, makes the Kamehameha look like “dog piss” in comparison. Additionally, I’ll reiterate, it’s all just PIS, man.
@mynameisalmahdi – I wasn’t claiming he damaged Cell. Though it is noteworthy that Cell has Piccolo’s regenerative abilities. He can heal very quickly from injuries. Especially minor scratches and scuffs.
While you’re right that the “Tri-Beam” is superior to the Kamehameha a superior technique alone won’t allow you to hold someone back if they are significantly more powerful than you. Hence my reference to Cell’s Special Beam Canon and Frieza Beams doing nothing to SSJ2 Gohan.
@mynameisalmahdi – “who was preposterously superior to Super Gokuu”
We don’t know how much more powerful than Goku he was. He was slightly stronger than Piccolo as a “Super Namek” but SSJ Vegeta was able to present a moderate challenge to Android 18 before training in the Room of Spirit and Time.
You keep harping on “damage”. I said he managed to hold him back. No one is arguing he could defeat Cell, preventing him from moving against his will. I doubt Frieza’s first form could do that.
@mynameisalmahdi – As for canon because something isn’t in the Manga doesn’t make it non-canon. Anime are usually considered a separate entity from Manga and have a different canon on their own. Hence why the anime form of a manga can have a significantly different storyline and both are considered “legitimate”. Especially if the creator is behind both.
With the DBZ anime only the movies are considered non-canon.
@A86
Your assumptions regarding the efficiency of the “chi” cannons are baseless. When Super Vegeta gathered the remnants of his “chi” and hurled it at Cell III with all his might in the form of the “Final Flash” technique, the monster had practically half of his body incinerated — yet he didn’t budge an inch. Simultaneously, whilst Tenshinhan’s technique made Cell move physically, unlike Vegeta’s, you’ll note that it did no damage whatsoever, which you’ll note if you check the manga.
@A86
To expound on my previous comment, the techniques themselves clearly have diverging effects, with the “chi” cannons possessing pushing properties. Moreover, consider that Tenshinhan poured his life into building up those “chi” cannons and that the latter are the most potent “chi”-amplifying attacks seen within the series.
@A86
As for SSj Vegeta, I fully agree that he was not too far behind Artificial Humans 17 & 18, but the latter are infinitely weaker than Artificial Human 16, considering that Cell I, subsequent to his massacre and assimilation of humans, was completely unscathed by Piccolo’s maximum “chi” output and able to defeat the Namek-jin in a few blows with utter ease. Artificial Human 16, who was equal to said Cell, was incapable of harming Cell II. The difference is momentous, sir.
@A86
Furthermore, your doubt of Freeza’s capabilities matter not in this discussion. Again, the use of the “Light of Death” and Freeza’s beams on SSj2 Son Gohan is not present in the manga and can thus be discounted. I’ll reiterate; only the manga is fully canon to the series as a whole. Also, Mister Toriyama was certainly not a driving force in the anime, especially if you consider the incessantly nonsensical fillers that litter it.
@mynameisalmahdi – “yet he didn’t budge an inch”
And was seriously damaged for doing so. Of course he can recover but he was still damaged. Not moving puts a lot more force on your body.
“with the “chi” cannons possessing pushing properties”
Yet it did little against Super Buu. I don’t think it budged him nor did it damage him. Showing that power of the user does indeed factor into its usefulness.
“but the latter are infinitely weaker”
How did you ascertain this?
@A86
“Filler” is anything that has been added to the series during the transition from manga to anime. Thus, anything that does not appear in the manga — thus all of the filler — is considered non-canon (as all filler is deemed non-canon). Anime’s certainly do have their own “canon” of sorts, but it is not applicable to the series as a whole. If we discuss the Dragon Ball anime, fillers apply; if we discuss the canonical material of the Dragon Ball series as a whole, filler is discounted.
@mynameisalmahdi – I ask “how did you ascertain this” because Android 16 was only slightly more powerful than “Super Namek” Piccolo after absorbing Kami. Piccolo was more powerful than Android 17 and 18 but not monstrously so. Android 17 was able to keep up with Piccolo with Piccolo only having a slight edge over him. Thus it’s reasonable to conclude Android 16 probably isn’t INFINITELY more powerful than 17 and 18. Just noticeably or somewhat significantly.
@A86
Tenshinhan’s “chi” cannon didn’t hit the “super” Majin Buu in the manga — it was merely used to deflect a “chi” attack intended for Dende. As for the ascertainment of Artificial Human 17’s tremendous weakness in relation to Artificial Human 16, check the very post you’re quoting; it’s all in there.
“considering that Cell I, [...] was completely unscathed by Piccolo’s maximum “chi” output and able to defeat the Namek-jin in a few blows with utter ease.”
16 = Cell I >>> Piccolo > C17
@mynameisalmahdi – Most animes are significantly different from their manga version. DBZ is actually more faithful to the manga than most animes. By your logic most of entire anime series should be considered “non-canon”. Anime and Manga have their own separate canon. An example being Trigun. Think of how many differences there are between the manga and anime versions.
Toriyama wasn’t the main driving force behind many things in the anime but it has his ultimate stamp of approval.
@mynameisalmahdi – “your doubt of Freeza’s capabilities matter not in this discussion”
You are the one who theorized that Tien in the Cell Saga is weaker than any of Frieza’s forms.
“and can thus be discounted”
By that logic all lines of dialogue said in the anime not said in the manga should be discounted. By your logic most of the Trigun anime should be discounted outright.
@mynameisalmahdi – “Tenshinhan’s “chi” cannon didn’t hit the “super” Majin Buu in the manga”
In the manga Android 16 lost the left side of his head instead of the right side.
@mynameisalmahdi – “Cell I, [...] was completely unscathed by Piccolo’s maximum “chi” output and able to defeat the Namek-jin in a few blows”
There’s no evidence Android 16’s “Hell Flash” had much effect on him either. He was unscathed when he surfaced from the hole it created.
@TheBiemil me too
@TheBiemil to think of it i really thought he was no i didn’t but when i thinked of it i remembered about his long hair and i said “He was more link a ssj3″
but not
ive been letting people down my whole life! :[